two questions to jerry beck Options

[duck dodgers]

dear jerry,

is it possible that the bugs bunny rides again cartoon in the looney tunes dvd set got his original gandhi line restored instead of the namby pamby one?

the other question is:

i heard about a mistery involving the van beuren's tom and jerry cartoon plane dumb,about the voice actors,the cartoon was supposed to be a vehicle for an animated amos and andy cartoon series or something like this,what do you say about?


thanks in advance!

[JERRY BECK]

is it possible that the bugs bunny rides again cartoon in the looney tunes dvd set got his original gandhi line restored instead of the namby pamby one?


i heard about a mistery involving the van beuren's tom and jerry cartoon plane dumb,about the voice actors,the cartoon was supposed to be a vehicle for an animated amos and andy cartoon series or something like this,what do you say about?

BUGS BUNNY RIDES AGAIN has the "namby pamby" line on the new dvd. But it's a great print.

PLANE DUMB was original produced as a MILLER & LYLES cartoon (MILLER & LYLES was a very famous vaudeville and Broadway black comedy duo of the 1920s), under the title "ALL WET". The only reason I know this is that I came upon frames from a 35mm a work print of the cartoon and I found the original titles.

Obviously, a falling out between Miller & Lyles and Van Beuren forced the studio to revise the cartoon as a Tom & Jerry.

[duck dodgers]

thanks,mr.beck!

[Daff Doc]

BUGS BUNNY RIDES AGAIN has the "namby pamby" line on the new dvd. But it's a great print.

Why doesn't this short have the original line now? I thought everything was coming from the negative unless they permanantly changed it back then but then I thought I heard someone say they heard the original line since then. I'm not complaining I'm very exited about it just asking. It's coming out tommorow! Would it hurt the sales if I couldn't get it the first day?

[Scaramanga]

BUGS BUNNY RIDES AGAIN has the "namby pamby" line on the new dvd. But it's a great print.

Why doesn't this short have the original line now? I thought everything was coming from the negative unless they permanantly changed it back then but then I thought I heard someone say they heard the original line since then. I'm not complaining I'm very exited about it just asking. It's coming out tommorow! Would it hurt the sales if I couldn't get it the first day?

This is probably just me but what do the original negatives have to do with the sound of the shorts ? Or do those nagtives also contain the sound of the cartoons ? Me ... I'd say no ... but I could be wrong of course.

[hiselliotness]

On original negatives, the sound and picture portions are always separate. It's possible that the original sound track with "Mahatma Gandhi" no longer exists.

Piecing together a film from really old film elements can be a challenge, particularly when it comes to films considered "low priority" by the film companies. Note that while some cartoons on the two Looney Tunes box sets have original titles, some still have "Blue Ribbon" titles. The originals are simply lost, or have deteriorated.

There are other such examples: Many of the black-and-white Porky Pig films have missing soundtracks for the logos and title cards, no doubt a result of poor handling when they were owned by "Sunset Productions/Guild Films". (On the 1990s-vintage colorized T.V. prints, some of the music has been re-dubbed, occasionally using the incorrect versions.) Disney ran into a similar problem when restoring the black-and-white Mickey Mouse cartoons (and Disney always owned the negatives!). And some of you may have purchased a Disney laser disc fro a few years ago that featured a version of The Three Little Pigs containing the original "Jewish peddler" but without the Yiddish-accented voice.

[Larry T]

And some of you may have purchased a Disney laser disc fro a few years ago that featured a version of The Three Little Pigs containing the original "Jewish peddler" but without the Yiddish-accented voice.

Can anyone link me to a.WAV file or an .MP3 so I can hear that dialogue with the Yiddish accent?

I was within the understanding that the recent "Silly Symphonies" set contained the original dialogue but not the original caricature.... yet recently I saw the one from the LaserDisk that apparently had the original caricature but not the original voice.

Well, I watched them both and the dialogue is exactly the same on the two versions... so what's the case with these??

[hiselliotness]

Obviously, they can't find the soundtrack with Yiddish Dialect. The DVD, as I recall, had the "refilmed" peddler (Not the Jewish one). The laser disc only had the original picture portion, but not the sound. Strangely, the DVD had the original title cards (as seen on the laser disc from a few years ago) as opposed to the generic, "red burlap" re-issue title cards.

There was an older Japanese pressing from a few years earlier that had the more familiar reissue version (with the "red burlap" title cards).

[J Lee]

On original negatives, the sound and picture portions are always separate. It's possible that the original sound track with "Mahatma Gandhi" no longer exists.

I've got copies of both versions of the cartoon on videotape from the 1980s (of course, its on Beta, so I need to find a decent used machine to do a transfer), so if the original was still in circulation less than 20 years ago, finding a copy and "borrowing" the audio track shouldn't be a problem.

Where the problem may lie is the cartoon ended up in kind of a mid-zone between the extensive reworking of "Fresh Airdale" after FDR died and the simple redubbing of the cartoon "A Wild Hare" for its re-release after Carole Lombard died. In the first case, Jones was able to rework the cartoon before its release and after Roosevelt's death; in the latter case, it was just a matter of calling Arthur Q Bryan back into the studio to dub the line when the cartoon came out a second time.

With "Bugs Bunny Rides Again" it was probably shipped to New York almost at the exact same time as Ghandi was assassinated. As a result, there isn't the difference in sound tracks between the regular and BR versions of the cartoon, as with "A Wild Hare," there are two cartoons with original titles that were made, and apparently when Warners sent AAP a copy for duplication when they sold the rights in 1956, they sent the original version.

Of course, time heals all wounds, or at the very least makes shocking news stories far less affecting a few years down the line. Until the mid 1980s, I never knew there was a version of "Bugs Bunny Rides Again" without the Ghandi line, because that was the only version I had ever seen, not only on WNEW in New York (which was editing WB cartoons before anyone else ever did), but on other stations around the country.

[jeff_schiller]

I've got copies of both versions of the cartoon on videotape from the 1980s (of course, its on Beta, so I need to find a decent used machine to do a transfer), so if the original was still in circulation less than 20 years ago, finding a copy and "borrowing" the audio track shouldn't be a problem.

Where the problem may lie is the cartoon ended up in kind of a mid-zone between the extensive reworking of "Fresh Airdale" after FDR died and the simple redubbing of the cartoon "A Wild Hare" for its re-release after Carole Lombard died. In the first case, Jones was able to rework the cartoon before its release and after Roosevelt's death; in the latter case, it was just a matter of calling Arthur Q Bryan back into the studio to dub the line when the cartoon came out a second time.

With "Bugs Bunny Rides Again" it was probably shipped to New York almost at the exact same time as Ghandi was assassinated. As a result, there isn't the difference in sound tracks between the regular and BR versions of the cartoon, as with "A Wild Hare," there are two cartoons with original titles that were made, and apparently when Warners sent AAP a copy for duplication when they sold the rights in 1956, they sent the original version.

Of course, time heals all wounds, or at the very least makes shocking news stories far less affecting a few years down the line. Until the mid 1980s, I never knew there was a version of "Bugs Bunny Rides Again" without the Ghandi line, because that was the only version I had ever seen, not only on WNEW in New York (which was editing WB cartoons before anyone else ever did), but on other stations around the country.

1) I thought Fala (FDR's dog) had died, not FDR himself. Maybe I got it mixed up.

2) So you had never seen a version without the Ghandi line? If so, a version of the dialog must surely exist in great numbers. Why couldn't it be included when the restoration was being made?

[damfino]

... and the simple redubbing of the cartoon "A Wild Hare" for its re-release after Carole Lombard died.

Pardom my ignorance about the situation but what does Carole Lombard's death have to do with this?

[FuriousFreddy]

... and the simple redubbing of the cartoon "A Wild Hare" for its re-release after Carole Lombard died.

Pardom my ignorance about the situation but what does Carole Lombard's death have to do with this?

During the "Guess Who" set-piece in "A Wild Hare," Elmer originally guessed "Carole Lombard" instead of "Barbara Stanwyck."

By the time "A Wild Hare" was re-issued as a "Blue Ribbon" title, Carole Lombard had died in a plane crash, and Elmer's guess was re-dubbed to Barbara Stanwyck.

[damfino]

... and the simple redubbing of the cartoon "A Wild Hare" for its re-release after Carole Lombard died.

Pardom my ignorance about the situation but what does Carole Lombard's death have to do with this?

During the "Guess Who" set-piece in "A Wild Hare," Elmer originally guessed "Carole Lombard" instead of "Barbara Stanwyck."

By the time "A Wild Hare" was re-issued as a "Blue Ribbon" title, Carole Lombard had died in a plane crash, and Elmer's guess was re-dubbed to Barbara Stanwyck.

Thanks for the info, I'd rather Lombard myself.

[Brandon]

Can anyone supply a sound file of the original Mahatma Gaundi line?

[hiselliotness]

With "Bugs Bunny Rides Again" it was probably shipped to New York almost at the exact same time as Ghandi was assassinated. As a result, there isn't the difference in sound tracks between the regular and BR versions of the cartoon, as with "A Wild Hare," there are two cartoons with original titles that were made, and apparently when Warners sent AAP a copy for duplication when they sold the rights in 1956, they sent the original version.

They possibly made more than one IN of the film; it may also be that there were differences between the 35-mm prints and the 16-mm prints (which most TV stations ran).

If you grew up watching the WB cartoons in New York, you probably remember the bizarre print of Tweety Pie that they used to run on Channel 5: It had the "Blue Ribbon" picture portion and an original-version soundtrack. The "a.a.p." logo panned backwards silently; part-way through the logo, you heard the "boing" and the shortened 1945-orchestration of the Merrie Melodies theme, followed by the actual title music (a different orchestration of the Wise-Quacking Duck theme) during the "Blue Ribbon" title card.