KFS Popeye Article in "Classic Images" Options

[Russell H]

CLASSIC IMAGES NO. 379 (cover-dated January 2007) has a short but interesting article on the King Features Syndicate Popeye cartoons written by Frank Grandinetti. He includes a rundown on each of the studios that did the cartoons with pointers on how to distinguish which one did which cartoons. He concludes that many of the KFS Popeyes actually had good stories, one-liners and visual puns, but were done in by the mostly terrible animation.

The article also includes a nice reproduction of a 1961 trade-journal ad for the cartoons which I hadn't seen before.

If you have trouble finding CLASSIC IMAGES at your local newsstand or bookstore, try http://www.classicimages.com to see if single copies can be ordered.

The issue also includes good capsule reviews of the latest Disney Treasures and Disney Legacies DVD releases.

[Ray Pointer]

CLASSIC IMAGES NO. 379 (cover-dated January 2007) has a short but interesting article on the King Features Syndicate Popeye cartoons written by Frank Grandinetti. He includes a rundown on each of the studios that did the cartoons with pointers on how to distinguish which one did which cartoons. He concludes that many of the KFS Popeyes actually had good stories, one-liners and visual puns, but were done in by the mostly terrible animation.

The article also includes a nice reproduction of a 1961 trade-journal ad for the cartoons which I hadn't seen before. If you have trouble finding CLASSIC IMAGES at your local newsstand or bookstore, try http://www.classicimages.com to see if single copies can be ordered. The issue also includes good capsule reviews of the latest Disney Treasures and Disney Legacies DVD releases.

That's our "friend," FRED Grandinetti. In light of the fact that the entire POPEYE library is coming out on DVD in the coming year--an issue that he claims to have been petitioning for years, it seems this article restates what has been covered by others over the past several years. In fact, this seems to be a reprint of an earlier article by him. Since the "color remakes," not "colorization" of POPEYE happened 20 years ago, and criticisms about the results have been published since then, this is nothing new. An article on the coming of POPEYE on DVD, and the value of the cartoons in their original theatrical form as planned for this upcoming DVD release would be better timed at this point.

This post has been edited by Ray Pointer: Dec 31 2006, 05:19 PM

[Steve Carras]

That's our "friend," FRED Grandinetti. In light of the fact that the entire POPEYE library is coming out on DVD in the coming year--an issue that he claims to have been petitioning for years, it seems this article restates what has been covered by others over the past several years. In fact, this seems to be a reprint of an earlier article by him.

I remember o0ne written by him. THat may be ther one. He wrote one for an edition of ther late Animato! 9MIA since around 1999) that had a lot of Popeye articles and there were SEVERAL, I kid you not--SEVERAL,
on the varied King Feature Syndicate TV POPEYE series!

Basically I think that the stories often tended to be very good that the animation, of course, was much less
admirable even by TV standards,at least in the "Deitch/Snyder/Rembrant" ones, though Halas & Batchelor in UK--the very sam who did "Animal Farm" back in 1954!!!---did some and HAD to have done better animation--.. and also in the "Jack Kinney' ones,which were (to bring up yet another studio involved in this reviled television-project) Format Films, who then, were doing the excellent 1961 "Alvin Show" (and just WHY, kiddies, do we say Excellent--in comparision to WHAT? Why, the 1980s Ruby-Spears Chipmunks,that's what!). THe uncredited Paramount ones (Just these names..Seymour Kneitel...Winston Sharples...Anton Loeb.... etc. give you a clue as to WHO did these, except that you'll know it as "Harveytoons" or "Felix the Cat Productions" once you hear the music if you're under around 55 or so or haven't read any of the major animation history books..I know *I* was confused back in the 1960s on his.) Also involved was a UPA studio run by a "Gerry Ray", and Larry Harmon (you know, the clown what gave us Bozo..) and allegedy the Tennessee TUxedo guys Total Teleivison Productions

[JERRY BECK]

That's our "friend," FRED Grandinetti...

...who sometimes posts here as "Kathy Kane"(!)

[detroittvguy]

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

[Steve Carras]

...who sometimes posts here as "Kathy Kane"(!)

Huh? You mean there ISN'T a nice girl on this messageboard named Kathy Kane? :wink:

[duck dodgers]

That's our "friend," FRED Grandinetti. In light of the fact that the entire POPEYE library is coming out on DVD in the coming year--

The entire library? You probably mean the Fleischers cartoons. And I'm not even sure they will release them all this year.
It sounds impossible to release ALL the theatrical Popeye cartoons in one single year, including both Fleischers' and Famous'.

[cpalmerd]

With "friends" like these, eh, Fred?

Andrea: Good point! That is going to be one heck of a box set!

Craig (I "like" quotation "marks") D.

[JERRY BECK]

The entire library? You probably mean the Fleischers cartoons. And I'm not even sure they will release them all this year.
It sounds impossible to release ALL the theatrical Popeye cartoons in one single year, including both Fleischers' and Famous'.

Only all the Fleischer cartoons will be released this year (in two boxed collections released separately). The Famous cartoons will be released in 2008.

[magadizer]

That's awesome Jerry!

That's the first "official" word I can remember on the content or spacing of the Popeye sets.

It's going to be a great Popeye couple of years, with the Fantagraphics Segar books in there as well.

Thanks,

Josh

[Steve Carras]

And Andrea.....you think about releasing all of those sets..imageine how much it took to MAKE the KING FEATURES SYNDICATE Popeyes..7 studios at least.

This post has been edited by Steve Carras: Jan 5 2007, 01:56 AM

[HisBoyElroy]

...Also involved was a UPA studio run by a "Gerry Ray", and Larry Harmon (you know, the clown what gave us Bozo..) ...

Hey, would you know specifically, or even generally, what they (UPA) actually put out at that time? Animation-wise, not Bozo-wise! Or at least point me someplace where I might find that info -- because I was searching quite recently on the 'net and found very limited items. If so, feel free to post it in a new thread or PM me, 'cause I know it's off topic. Thanks.

[Kathy Kane]

The Popeye article is new research and photos combined with previous information.
Personally, when the KFS cartoons come out by WHV I would like to see extras discussing why they
came into being, why they were done so fast, what was the reason Bluto became Brutus. Al Brodax
should be contacted.

Popeye was big animation business back in 1959/60/61.

Kathy

[Ray Pointer]

Personally, when the KFS cartoons come out by WHV I would like to see extras discussing why they
came into being, why they were done so fast, what was the reason Bluto became Brutus. Al Brodax
should be contacted. Popeye was big animation business back in 1959/60/61.

Kathy

These matters have been discussed before. If they are addressed, it may not have an accurate spin since this is something that happened over 40 years ago, and the majority of the people involved were not even born when this happened. It is entirely possible that they may have an entirely different perspectiive and perception. Common sense would tell you that an interview with Al Bordax would be in order, but being logical these days seems more the exception than the rule.

The reason for the "Brutus" name change has been discussed here and in other forums. I am sure that the poster is aware of this as well. But since King Features was in charge of the television productions and had the rights to the name, that is essentially why. As for why they were produced so quickly, you can blame it on the voracious appetite of television. The original theatrical series of over 229 cartoons produced over 24 years were consumed after two years of running. When one POPEYE cartoon would be seen in a theater in a month, 10 to 14 were seen a week on television At that rate, the entire library had been run in four to five and a half months.

King Features' motivation was to profit directly from the television popularity of POPEYE. While they had licensed the character for the theatricals, they were not getting the full benefit of the television sales of the Fleischer/Parmount series. But in the television productions they were. So to simplify it terms of,
pardon the expression, "bottom line" marketing strategies, tight budget production compared to property value equalled profit for KFS. THAT is why they made them so quickly.

"That guy is my brain,
He's driving me insane,
Where's 'Freddie' that son of gun?"

Betty Boop in "Betty Boop's Lifeguard"

This post has been edited by Ray Pointer: Jan 23 2007, 03:57 AM

[Steve Carras]

These matters have been discussed before. If they are addressed, it may not have an accurate spin since this is something that happened over 40 years ago, and the majority of the people involved were not even born when this happened. It is entirely possible that they may have an entirely different perspectiive and perception. Common sense would tell you that an interview with Al Bordax would be in order, but being logical these days seems more the exception than the rule.

The reason for the "Brutus" name change has been discussed here and in other forums. I am sure that the poster is aware of this as well. But since King Features was in charge of the television productions and had the rights to the name, that is essentially why.

That's part of it. The problem was King Features and Paramount were still doing a number of those plus the four or five others making those for K.F.S. and King Features forgot who owned who---Bluto was K.F.S.'s property but since he was popularized in the 1930s the Parmaount/Fleischer's shorts, (with which his creation did coincide, tolus Popeyes wasn't created hardly half a dozen years before the first short IIRC) after the one shot deal K.F.S. did (creator "E.C.Segar" preffered one-off villians), that was why everyone forgot who owend the villian, and King Features decided not to take chances and changed the name to Brutus. Then it was found out otherwise, that K.F.S. DID own the rights but an interesting episode, since they were already doing the shows with "Brutus", Brutus and Bluto met. (Maybe two.)

Reference:Mark Evanier from Jack Mercer himself. Cecil Adams's The Straight Dope ™.

[Russell H]

That's part of it. The problem was King Features and Paramount were still doing a number of those plus the four or five others making those for K.F.S. and King Features forgot who owned who---Bluto was K.F.S.'s property but since he was popularized in the 1930s the Parmaount/Fleischer's shorts, (with which his creation did coincide, tolus Popeyes wasn't created hardly half a dozen years before the first short IIRC) after the one shot deal K.F.S. did (creator "E.C.Segar" preffered one-off villians), that was why everyone forgot who owend the villian, and King Features decided not to take chances and changed the name to Brutus. Then it was found out otherwise, that K.F.S. DID own the rights but an interesting episode, since they were already doing the shows with "Brutus", Brutus and Bluto met. (Maybe two.)

Reference:Mark Evanier from Jack Mercer himself. Cecil Adams's The Straight Dope ™.

Bluto did only appear on one story-arc, "The Eighth Sea" in the THIMBLE THEATER comic-strip in 1933. As I understand it, this story-arc coincided with Fleischer acquiring the rights, and so they just used the one villain who happened to be current. This one should be reprinted by Fantagraphics soon, and it's really amazing--the final fight between Popeye and Bluto runs for eleven daily strips!

It's interesting that only a few of Segar's "regular" characters made it to the screen: Other than Popeye and Olive, there were only Wimpy, Poopdeck Pappy and Swee' Pea. While the Goons make an appearance in GOONLAND, they were used in that cartoon only. (Was the Jeep also only used in one cartoon?) It's too bad they never used the Sea Hag, Segar's one continuing villain (she was so creepy he used to get letters from parents complaining that she gave children nightmares).

Reportedly, E.C. Segar had virtually nothing to do with the cartoons. I read somewhere that his only direct involvement came when somebody from Fleischers telephoned him to ask how many whiskers were in Wimpy's mustache.

[Kathy Kane]

Bluto and Brutus never met in animated form, to the best of my research. Certainly not in the KFS-TV
series. However, Jack Mercer made a goof in the H-B cartoon, Close Encounters of the Third Spinach and called "Darth Bluto", "Darth Brutus" in one scene. This is the only cartoon where the brute is called
both names. Ocean Comics published a special Popeye edition where Bluto met his "brother"
Brutus.

What is the on-going mystery with the name change is why Bluto was called this name in the Thimble
Theatre comic strips during 1955-1959 by Ralph Sten and Bill Zaboly but Bud Sagendorf had to refer
to the bully as "the Mean Man", "The Big Guy Who Hates Popeye" or "Sonny Boy"in comic books. Then, of course he was being called both Bluto and Brutus on various merchandise during this same period.

Kathy

[Ray Pointer]

Bluto did only appear on one story-arc, "The Eighth Sea" in the THIMBLE THEATER comic-strip in 1933. As I understand it, this story-arc coincided with Fleischer acquiring the rights, and so they just used the one villain who happened to be current. This one should be reprinted by Fantagraphics soon, and it's really amazing--the final fight between Popeye and Bluto runs for eleven daily strips!

It's interesting that only a few of Segar's "regular" characters made it to the screen: Other than Popeye and Olive, there were only Wimpy, Poopdeck Pappy and Swee' Pea. While the Goons make an appearance in GOONLAND, they were used in that cartoon only. (Was the Jeep also only used in one cartoon?) It's too bad they never used the Sea Hag, Segar's one continuing villain (she was so creepy he used to get letters from parents complaining that she gave children nightmares).

Reportedly, E.C. Segar had virtually nothing to do with the cartoons. I read somewhere that his only direct involvement came when somebody from Fleischers telephoned him to ask how many whiskers were in Wimpy's mustache.

The "Jeep" was in two cartoons, THE JEEP and POPEYE PRESENTS EUGENE THE JEEP. In a discussion at GAC which this thread is referencing, I mentioned that these were among the cartoons that did not have the Spinach eating climax. I also suggested the possiblities of THE SEA HAG as a viable substitute "Villianess" after the death of Gus Wickie, the original voice of BLUTO. As anyone who has followed the cartoons knows
the character designs were improved in the animated versions. The Segar original of THE SEA HAG was not expressive enough for the screen. But one of the few good things to come out of the television series was an effective redesign that made her the witch that she was. As for fearing that the Sea Hag gave children nightmares, this is not something that the Fleischer crew would have concerned themselves with since there was no intent on making a "children's product" per se. The same concern has been raised about the evil characters in Disney's features SNOW WHITE and PINOCCHIO. But a villian is supposed to be threatening and fearsome. That is the motivation for the hero, representing good to triumph over evil. Evil things and people are to be feared. Nightmares can be caused by many things, but avoiding the constrasts of good and bad leads to a very bland story, and blurs the difference between good and bad, or consequence resulting from action. Our ability to know the difference is valued in society, and is also a part of our basic survival instincts.

As for calling Segar to consult about the number of whiskers on WIMPY'S mustasche, that seems rather silly since they had the strips to refer to, and also had prepared a reference scrapbook of the daily and Sunday strips for story ideas and character details.

This post has been edited by Ray Pointer: Jan 24 2007, 02:18 AM